#90 Louisa Andrea | Finding Home in Egypt - A Conversation on Family, Homeschooling, and Growth

AUTOGENERATED TRANSCRIPT

00:00 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
So today we are together with Luisa Andrea, and first of all, welcome, happy to meet you.

00:07 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here and sharing with you in this space.

00:13 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Yeah, and so by your accent people can probably hear this. They will be like, oh, she must be British and we are in UK right now, but you are not. You're actually sitting a place that looks sunny and wonderful. So, and you're right, yeah, so.

00:33 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
I'm I'm in Egypt, um, and I've been here since mid-August. Uh, it's a place I spend a lot of time. I am British, my I'm dual nationality, actually, so I have a British passport and I'm also a cypriot passport holder, my father's from cyprus, um, another place I also spend quite a bit of time, but uh, yeah, in the last three years, egypt has been a really heavy focus for me, um, and I really egypt now really feels like home for me. It's that one place in the world that I just feel most me.

01:09
Oh interesting Cyprus is. You know, I have a lot of family in Cyprus and I love being there, but somehow Egypt just feels even more like home. You know, it's one of those unexplainable things to me. I just find so much beauty here and so much uh just lights me up. So, yes, I am in Egypt and it's still sunny whereabouts in Egypt, exactly. So. I'm currently in Masa Alam, which is um on the Red Sea coast. It's down towards the Sudan border. It's a very um remote area actually of Egypt.

01:44
It's down towards the Sudan border. It's a very remote area actually of Egypt. It's not one of the more like built up Red Sea areas. It's quite um unsoiled, and I mean the scenery that I have in front of me now is is the sea and beyond that, just the rolling desert, you know the desert, mountains and not much else in sight. And, yeah, there's something about this place that just feels like, uh, stepping back in time. You know that life before it was so complicated.

02:14 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
I think that's a lot of the appeal here for me, um, so yeah so, and one of the reasons I wanted to talk with you is that you love Egypt and it is on my radar and at the latest there is a full solar eclipse. We have become like full solar eclipse hunters. I saw one in 1999 when I was young, and we saw one together here in the spring, and we saw one together here in the spring and there will be one in Egypt in I think it's 27, which I really look forward to seeing.

02:55 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
But can you tell me about the project you're doing in Egypt. Yes, so I'm actually doing a couple of different things I have on the Red Sea coast. Here, along with another lady called Nadia, we have what we now describe as community adventures Rather than a world school hub. We initially started running a world school hub last year. We ran four months, individual months of clubs here. We adjusted it slightly to make it more sort of educational and family adventures because we wanted to open it up in the summer to not just world schoolers or home schoolers but everybody that might want to come, even if their kids are in school, to come and share in the adventures. So we condensed down the amount of time instead of a month, it's now 10 days here in master alan. So it's quite a fast-paced, jam-packed adventure.

03:51
We take people into the sea, of course, to explore the biodiversity. We we team up with um, a local organization called turtle watch. They're conservationists here in the area, um. They do a lot of work with us and they work with the families, offering workshops, and then we actually get out there and really put it into practice and start doing data collection that helps them in their conservation efforts. There's a lot to see in terms of a national park here. We're right on the edge of a national park, so we do some trips into the national park and we learn about the desert um botany, which is all important to the people here, the ababda bed winds that live still in the area. We also work in partnership with um, the ngo that's set up to support the ababda bed winds um. It's run by the Ababda community itself and we, over time, just developed a relationship with the people, the organisation and the people behind the organisation and really started to feel into what it is that the Ababda want in terms of recognition of their presence here. It's their land, after all, and they really want to feel relevant to the tourism industry which is present here, because it does attract people that are into diving, and so there are, like big, big hotels, big resorts around this very small town. We're living in the town and the place that we call the hub of our activities is a on a very remote beach area, so it's almost empty um.

05:33
So we um, in conversation with them, figured out that we could arrange to have a kind of cross-cultural experience where the we go to the Ababda village um, their actual home, not like a setup that's supposed to look like a Bedouin village. It's their actual home, so we're very privileged to be able to, to spend time with them and they teach us a little bit about their skills and craft. Um, they have a honeybee farm as well, and so we go out to the honeybee farm and we see them working with the bees. They just do what they would normally do every day and we just have the opportunity to be present while they are working with the bees and we get to sample the most incredible honey I've ever had in my life. It's like it's the most beautiful flavor. This bee honey it's acacia honey, because there are acacia trees here in the in the desert. So these are just some of the things that we do. There's more um, but this is some of the highlights for me of what we do.

06:35
We also do add um, add-on trips. So we this year we did an add-on trip to luxor, where we just had like five days in Luxor, took people around to some of the sites and also gave them an opportunity to do a few things. They were a little bit different to the norm. You know, meeting some of the locals that we're now friends with. Over the years, we've got to know them really well, and next year we're going to do that plus a little add-on trip to as one.

07:03
So we kind of changed how we were working with these adventures. It's kind of moved from a hub to more of a kind of community experience where you can come together with others that are like-minded and enjoy egypt and and have these kind of experiences that perhaps a little bit outside of the norm, um, and for me and for us it's important that there's a little bit of social impact work in that as well, um, which we are still developing. You know, these things take time and and we're developing those relationships and learning more about how we can really give back to the community here, um. So so that's one branch of what I'm doing, which is the world school.

07:45 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Lisa, can I, can I jump in? I'm, I can't actually remember. I should have done my research better. Maybe. How many kids is it you have and how, uh, how is that journey with them?

07:58 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Yeah, so I've got two boys.

08:00
My eldest is now 19 and my youngest is 13. So when we initially came to Egypt, it was both the kids that were with me. Um, um, my youngest, my, my eldest, uh, now 19, he he went back to the UK kind of midway through our journeys through Egypt because he wanted to go to college and so, um, yeah, I mean the experience for him in the first few months that he was with us was really impactful and he will tell everyone that it was one of the most enlightening experiences of his life and it expanded him and he thinks it got him ready for college because he the experiences that he had helped him to mature and expand his awareness of life in general, I think. And so he went back to college and he's now completed that and he's doing all very adult things like working and living with a girlfriend and saving money for their first house, and so I've kind of like not washed my hands of him, but he's, he's done like I've done, that we've been through it with our oldest and it is uh.

09:05 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
It is both a joy to see them step into to adult life, and and then we miss her, of course yeah, I miss him terribly.

09:14 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Like we speak a lot, we're very close, um, we have a really good relationship and I yeah, we check in often, like I share with him all of the things that we're doing, so he stays up to date and connected with me and his younger brother. So the younger one is now 13. And, yeah, we, he's just reaching that point in teenage years where he's starting to really want to carve out his own path, his own independence and push away from mama. I think traveling the two of us together in such kind of close proximity has been quite an intense experience for us over the last three years. Um, and he's making those movements now kind of wanting to do something different, push away. So I, as much as I love it here and want to continue doing things in Egypt, he's really his desires are changing. He's starting to feel like he wants to be back in the UK or traveling to other destinations, and so I'm currently at the moment really trying to work on that balance between what feels like my purpose and what his desires and his needs are, and I've got to be honest, it's not an easy balance for me. Like I'm finding it a challenging experience and I'm sort of been reaching out into the world school community, like asking the questions like guys, have you found that you've had this experience? Because, as a purpose-driven person and I do feel like what I'm doing here almost feels like it has a life of its own the retreats that I run, the things that I'm doing, the connections that I'm making and the doors that are opening for me, um, as as my own person, outside of being mum, feel, uh, incredible, if I'm honest, because Egypt has always been. I mean, I have a long history with Egypt, even prior to the last three years. I was in Egypt a lot in my younger years, before I had the kids, um, so it's always carried that kind of pull for me. So, yeah, I'm, I'm still figuring out how to navigate it and what I'm trying to do is create as many opportunities for him in the times that we are here, which is roughly around six or seven months of each year in the last three years. I'm trying to do is create as many opportunities for him in the times that we are here, which is roughly around six or seven months of each year in the last three years. I'm trying to create as much opportunity for him while we're here to be in connection with the worldwide community, inviting world schoolers to come and others to come.

11:41
I'm developing now a teen program specifically for teenagers with Turtle Watch Conservationists that will kind of take us a bit deeper into that learning around marine biology, because he needs more now His educational needs are changing and it needs to go a layer deeper and I'm hoping that that will then by default, kind of attract more people here that other teenagers for him. For the times that we are here, um, I'm running retreats in Luxor, for example, at the end of November for women. So what we've done now myself and the lady that I create that with we've developed a retreat specifically for teenagers, like a rite of passage, because I was already looking for some kind of rite of passage for him at this age to to mark that transition. Um, and of course, while I'm running these things, I need him nourished and we have good friends in Luxor.

12:35
He's, you know, he's always well cared for. But I wanted something more, not just for him to be well cared for, something that's going to really nourish him mind, body and soul as well. While I hold these spaces for others, I need to create that container for him as well. So it's, yeah, it's this. The juggling of that is birthing new things. It's making me think outside the box and and feeling to what's needed and and how much of myself and my dreams do I push aside slightly for his and that parental balance is, I think, sometimes tricky, or for me it is. Anyway, I find it a little bit challenging. I'd be keen to hear your wisdom around this.

13:21 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Well, we have our fourth child in that age right now, oh yeah. But I have to get up and get the bread out of the oven before I can be wise.

13:30 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Yes.

13:32 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
That sounds like a deeper wisdom to me. Well, they need to eat.

13:37 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
They need to eat, yeah, so, while Cecilia is getting the bread out, I can share a thought I got when you talked about this, share a thought I got when you talked about this, which is that some of the biggest communities I see for example, there is La Herradura in Spain, near Malaga, and it was created by a woman who just wanted more community for her child and she had moved away and the community is still ongoing because it served their time. They were there for many years and was a big engine in in creating a place where now people who likes to travel with their kids pass by every year and I look forward to passing by. I've been there two or three times and and the same also kind of is how the world schooling movement or word with the laney started was also she. She wanted more for for her son, um. So I think that this, uh, this we see it in our children now that that where our travel started being, you can say, our, maybe more our needs than the kids, it is now oriented around what the kids want in their time.

14:58
For example, we are in uk now in october and normally I would not be in uk in October because I like the heat, I like the, the sun. And we are going to Poland in November because it's insane, but there's just a lot of world schooling, a big world schooling community there. And, even worse, we are going to UK in December oh goodness.

15:22 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
well, I might see you there in December. I actually do plan to come back for Christmas, so yeah.

15:28
Yeah, I see what you're saying, yes, you have.

15:31
You know, the desires change, the needs change and I think as they become, you know, more aware of themselves as an adult.

15:41
We need to listen to that.

15:41
So, yeah, I think I'm at that point now where I'm kind of realizing, ok, there might need to be some shifts in my plan, where I'm kind of realizing, okay, there might need to be some shifts in my plan and I mean, and if you know, if my eldest is anything to go by, then I've only really got just these few years left with him before he doesn't want anything, well, not nothing to do with me, but before he's carving his own path and really really going in, and then I have the rest of my life to to fulfill those things. It's just, I think right now we're in that sort of transitional space where I'm needing to balance both. He really wants to go to Vietnam and Japan and China, and so I'm, right next year, really working on making that happen for him, so that we create that balance, um, between my needs, his needs, and I guess the other thing that I see is like how much he's benefited actually and in his own development in these last three years um from the adventures that we've had here they have.

16:40
It's been really nourishing for him um in ways that maybe he will't do until later.

16:45 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
I can't remember if you're homeschooling or do you enroll them locally. What are you doing?

16:51 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Yes, no, we homeschool, so he has online tutors that are his consistent tutors that he's had for years. We were homeschooling in the UK, so he has the same connection now with the tutor that he was always working with. So she's working him towards being ready for GCSE examinations, um, which is the UK uh examinations that they take to um to gain entry to college. We did a similar thing with my, my older son as well, and he he did the same, so at the moment, it's online and then we do the enrichment around in the location that we're in and in in egypt. So, yeah, that's our current. Yeah what?

17:32 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
what brought you down the homeschooling pad in the start?

17:36 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
so that was my eldest son. He he was. He did his first year, or two years, so reception and then the first year of primary school, um, but I started to, I was really active at the school. I would go in and help and you know, like you know, really active and involved in the school environment with him and I started to notice, um some things that I just thought were just not quite right in the school system that you know, the the system for him it did not fit. He did not fit the system.

18:11
He's very, very bright, really fast process of the speech. So he was um moving through the work and picking it up incredibly quickly, but then he was bored because he needed more and more stimulation and this was expressing itself as what was being described as bad behaviour, which was really just from my observation, him getting bored and wanting to play with his friends because he's done the work and it's finished and he's absorbed it. Now what's next? So, after lengthy conversations with the school around this, we landed in a place where they really told me they didn't have the resources to progress him. They were not prepared to um support him in giving him more stimulation, helping him forward in in this, and so I spoke to the school about home education and that I'd been considering it. I've been doing some research in our local area. There was a large community of homeschoolers already present and we kind of came to the conclusion that it would probably be a good idea to homeschool. And what? What really put the nail in the in it for me was one day when I picked him up from school and he said to me he came out really upset and he said to me mum, why do you put me somewhere where people don't love me? And that felt like a punch to the gut, like it, it. It was the, the final piece for me.

19:36
Um, I thought, yeah, he doesn't feel nurtured here, um, and I need to do something about that. Because I could see he was losing the love of learning, and my focus really in our whole homeschool journey has been to really focus on that love of learning, like you know, encouraging that passion for learning, whatever it is that you want to learn, and and to not, um, squash that. So that was where I took him out of school and we entered into the, the homeschool communities I initially tried to do like a very home school, like school at home version of that, because that's all I knew, that's all I'd grown up with as well quickly realized that wasn't going to work, and so we then focused instead on on community building, learning from other homeschoolers. I was really watching how the community did it and I saw so many different reasons for homeschooling, so many different ways of doing it, from unschooling through to sort of more academic approaches and all of the bits in between.

20:40
So I decided that we needed, first and foremost, to focus on connection and friendships and building our community circle before we even began to think about the education ethos and I think I needed to learn how he learnt. So I didn't really know at that point, I hadn't really put my own awareness into figuring that out. So that was how we started the journey and we've loved it. We loved it ever since. I didn't didn't put my younger one in school because I mean, he did a very, he did a bit of nursery and he did a very small um stints in school just before the lockdowns, um, but it just it just didn't feel right for me or us, and so we just went back to homeschooling after that as well.

21:26 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Yeah, classic story actually oh, yes, yeah, yeah. I think so it's nothing that unusual. Yeah, the most important element, that that leg of love yeah yeah, I like that he put words into that. You know they really need to be surrounded by people who love them while growing up yeah, yeah, absolutely.

21:50 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
I think he was always really quite emotionally aware, um, and able to express that and, yeah, it impacted me like the clarity with which he communicated. That felt really, really strong for me, um, and it kind of made it inevitable after that. So, yeah, and he's been, he's thrived in this process, he's you know, he's completed college. He's such an incredible young man like I I'm in awe of him actually. He's his self-direction, his self-discipline, his ability to to um, yeah, just just take himself down the path that he he wanted to go down, like I really feel like from the age of 11, that process really kicked off.

22:37
Like he knew he wanted to do music and he knew he wanted to do music production because he had an opportunity to explore that um, his dad's a music producer, so it was kind of already in the, in the field for him, um, and then he realized there was like a cool college that he could go to and he researched, found the college himself, uh, he knew then what grades he needed, what examinations he would need to get into that college, and he did all of that research himself at around 11, 12, um, so then it was just a job. You know, my job was just to keep encouraging that in him and to not let that passion for that fall away. And then really I feel I feel like he was very self-directed from that point. Um, so I give him a lot of credit just because of who he is, but I think where I credit myself is recognising that need early on to remove him from the system that wasn't working for him.

23:39 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
Are you looking out for the same journey for your second son? Then now.

23:45 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
So what I'm trying not to do at this moment is place the same blueprint over him, because he's a very different character. He's very strong-willed. He's, um, actually not as eloquent in explaining his feelings. Um, in explaining his feelings, um, he's uh, he's not one that will put a mask on anything, and I love that about him, even if it challenges me. You know, when you're in those social settings sometimes and you just want, like, everything to go smoothly and he's just going to show you who he is in each moment, and that's refreshing. At the same time, it's also for me sometimes has been a bit challenging he, he's challenging me in ways both my children, I mean, I think they're our biggest teachers and they've both been such a big part of my unraveling story, my, my unschooling, my, you know, um, yeah, releasing of those layers of societal programming that that kind of limits us, and and he's bringing his own flavor to that. So, uh, right now, no, I'm not trying to place the same blueprint, I'm trying to be really open-minded in how we approach this. He is having online tutoring. Um, this is not just for the tutoring of the subject. Actually, the woman who tutors him, she's like a mentor for him. She's an adult in his life that's been present for a long time and I wanted, while we were away, to keep that connection going, because she is an adult that he trusts and that he feels a deep connection with and that he opens up to, and she, she's been a fantastic light in his life and our lives, and so I'm, I wanted to keep that going. So it's it's not just for the academic reasons.

25:36
Um, yeah, I'm, I'm remaining open-minded at this moment, so he's not yet latched on to. I mean, he says he wants to be an actor. Um, we're kind of at the stage with him where he wants to be an actor and he thinks he's already, he's already there, like he doesn't need to do anything. There's nothing, I'm just, I'm, I'm an actor, it's already done, which is great. I think he's manifesting it like it's going to happen more than likely, because in his mind it's just inevitable. So it's going to happen. Um, at the moment he doesn't want to do anything too heavily related to that in any kind of like tutors or anything like that, so I'm just letting it be.

26:12
And he's in, you know, spending his spare time. When we have downtime, he's watching loves Adam Sandler, so he's watching Adam Sandler movies and Adam Sandler's producer. So now he's also saying it might be a good idea for me to to also be a film producer, because that's what Adam Sandler does and that means he can do all these other things, and so his creative mind is really just starting to awaken and explore those ideas. So I'm not putting too much pressure on that right now at this stage. I think we still have time for his journey to unfold and for him to kind of direct me. Um, I mean, that's really how I did it with my oldest son. It was. It was directed by them and their interests, and so I'm. They're going to be different interests, but I'm remaining open and just seeing, seeing where that moves and what direction we need to take that in for him, so it may look completely different oh yeah, it sent me down a memory path when I was like 12 13, I wanted to be an actor.

27:15 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Later on I wanted to be a movie director and I made an amateur feature film and some other projects. And I remember meeting one of the boys I went to public school with. We lived on the same road and one day he said, like so you're in all your big dreams. Uh, how do you do it? And aren't you afraid it just hurts you? And um, back then I was like more cocky and maybe like, nah, either I will reach them or I will learn from it.

27:45
And now I can look back and say, oh yeah, but there were some bruises along the way with all those big ego dreams. But it also have brought me places. So I'm not sure if I would advise my young self differently on these things. Others I definitely would uh on on these things, um, others I definitely would uh, but but um, it also made me think about sometimes, when we interview people for our podcast or we talk with other uh parents, we, um I I kind of sometimes would love to interview someone who have a child who's like no, I don't know what to do.

28:28 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
My first child was Cleopatra, when she was 11 and knew exactly what she wanted to do.

28:32
She's now 25 and she's doing it, so that's like super easy and you can be very proud and look like someone who accomplished something, even though it's actually my daughter who is accomplishing it. She's done so for more than half of her life. My daughter who is accomplishing right done so for more than half of her life. And then I just think it's a trap as home educators and and you might know that we're radical unschoolers, so we're in an even more radical corner of this community it's a trap to, when you have a first child who is succeeding in in the eyes of the world, to try to push the others into that same version of success. And it's really just something.

29:16
Because you talked about your first son and what he did, I was wondering where you were standing with that, because for me, our second child, I would not say he's not a success. He's a major success in his life, but he doesn't do. He's just not mainstream. He's not doing mainstream. He's not in any way busy growing up. He's not in any way busy having a career. He's studying all the time. He just does not want exams. He's not interested in the paperwork. He's like yeah, I know, I'm smart, I don't need the rest of the world to check it. And so he's this peaceful person.

29:59 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
He carries himself.

30:00 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
He knows what he needs, he knows what he wants, he's very responsible, has a very clear mind, um set of values, but also ethics rules. That he's you know, even like sometimes telling us other adults that, uh, someone has to be the responsible adult here and it's not you, mom and dad. Um, but it's great, I mean, and he's just so much his own person. He's just not doing that thing. That could make it very easy for me that I could say oh yeah, he's studying to become a doctor, or he's got a lot of job as a head of something it.

30:38
That's not what he's doing with his life and if you ask him, he's like but I don't care, it's not important. Which I admire, actually, and and also the arbitrary age thing. You know we can, the kids who learn to read at three. It's so easy for us, the kids who learn to read at 13,. It's slightly harder, actually massively harder for us as parents, but we have to get over ourselves and give them space.

31:06 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Yeah, sorry for rambling, I absolutely agree and I think, no, I love what you're saying and actually feels very good for me to hear it and very affirming to to share, for you to share that with me because, yeah, I think it is like it's challenging sometimes when you feel like you're so responsible for the outcome.

31:24
And one of the things that you know, like I've really worked on this, on myself with my kids is really trying more and more to really recognize them. As you know, I'm they're not mine, they were birthed through me but they are their own beings and it's their journey and for me now, like as long as they feel loved and like then kind of I'm doing my job really and the rest they can explore and I will provide for them the opportunities and I will encourage them. I'm learning very much with the second one because he's not the same mold. He is this more uh, um, maybe resistant character or he's. He's just not going to play that game. Like you know, he's not, he doesn't mask anything. He is who he is and um, and I, and I trust, and I'm trusting more and more in his innate knowing and I think that actually, yeah, radical unschooling always felt like a super like whoa how?

32:34
Because I wasn't raised that way, but neither was I just to clarify, yeah so even more kudos to you guys because it's, you know, I think it's challenging, but I absolutely see and understand and get with the program on that, like how we can really learn to let go of the reins and just allow life to happen through our kids and even through ourselves, like it's a constant for me. But my personal development is learning more and more to let go of expectations of myself and others and just let life flow in a different way. And yeah, I find it more challenging with my kids and the parenting journey, but that's the self-development tool for me is they present me with those triggering moments that I then need to, yeah, get over, like check myself.

33:26 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
What I sometimes see, and also why I brought up the subject, is that I have met, beside our son, so many people where they just found their path, like in maybe mid or late 20s. And it is fun with this societal expectation that you should know your path from being young, expectation that you should know your path from being young. And I remember I could see the difference in me and my brother when there were like family gatherings when I was young, as I was very determined, people found an interest in it that it was easy to ask me so what do you want to be? And then I could talk for hours because I had all these things aligned up in my mind. Where my brother? He he's just a more chill man, but I mean his life is just as valuable and and wholesome.

34:16 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
It's fine, um what a challenge I find when I, when people say to my son and we hear it often like what do you want to do when you, when you like, what do you, what do you want to do? And I I feel for him in those moments and we talk about it quite a bit because he doesn't have an answer for that and he feels pressured by that question when it comes from others and it really makes him feel quite uncomfortable actually.

34:42 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Yeah, I've made a thought about that I want to share with you, which is I think it comes from people who ask I have turned it around in my head. In the start I was like, oh, are they judging us as a family because we are homeschooling our kids? And then I've turned it around to they are actually showing interest in the child and do not know how else to do it.

35:06 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Yes, yes.

35:07 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
This is what I explained to him.

35:09 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
It's just people showing interest and what they're doing is just following a societal norm.

35:23 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
So, what grade are you in? What are you doing? What are your plans? This automated question that adults who has not put too much thought into it, like always just ask kids like what grade are you in? What's your favorite subject? Um, do you have any extracurricular courses that you're taking? And what do you want to be when you grow up? And it's, I don't think I mean these questions can hurt a lot. They, they can stir the pot in the wrong way.

35:57
But about the, what do you want to be when you grow up? I mean, I think ours at this point now, but I mean, we're many years down the road of radical unschooling. They're very good at saying, well, I cannot give you an answer to that right now, but I know what I like doing right now yes, and and and. Then they will start talking about their passions and and. Uh, if it's an adult who's basically just interested in getting to know the person could be an aunt, could be a neighbor, it could be, I don know someone who actually genuinely wants to talk to the child Then it's a way more interesting conversation to talk about the passions that they have right now. So, yeah, that's one thing, and another thing we've been talking about. Oh, over and over in our family is this arbitrary idea about you've got the childhood before school, then you've got the schooling years, then you've got like the education kind of specialty education years and then you adult.

36:57
That's like this and then you can be old and sit in a nursery home maybe, um, but actually life comes in a lot of different stages and adult life is very long and and it has a lot of changes. I happened to sit down at university my first day at university. I sat I was 19 sat down next to a 59 year old lady who became my best friend and she had just decided two years earlier that she wanted to become a psychologist after having a long career as a designer. One day she just stood up from her sewing machine in the middle of Copenhagen with her fancy little shop. She was very successful. She's like I'm not sewing any more clothes in this life. I don't want to do it anymore.

37:45
I walked out. It was pretty epic. And then, uh and then she had to do a high school degree to be accepted into a university. She'd only had seven years of schooling. It was just amazing and it really showed me at that time that you can change at any point in life. She completed, she completed with nice grades, she was enthusiastic, she was fun, she was part of the community of mean, very much younger people. We had a lot of fun and she became a great psychologist in five years, like that.

38:17
So I mean, I, like my kids, have heard that story many times now. But it's an important story to tell because we are pushing into our very young children the idea that they have to choose for life, even when they are at the age of your son 13, when you know what so much is going on, so much you cannot even start to scratch the surface of understanding how much going on inside a 13 year old. So making decisions for the rest of your life is just a horrible idea to introduce at this time in their life. They can choose something, but but, and they can run with it if they want to. But they can very much also just sit down watch netflix for two years, if that's what they need to do, which is where he's at right now.

39:09 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
That's what he wants to do. Like you, just let me watch my movies. I'm absorbing everything that I need to from that and yeah. So, yes, part of the part of the challenge for me has been letting that be okay and releasing the part of me that's triggered, that feels judged by the outside world for that and that's yeah, that's a. That's a massive part of the journey for me is unwinding from that and, um, I'm doing an all right job. But occasionally it's like and then I have to feel it myself and check in and be like, okay, no, no, no, it's okay. Like someone actually said, like I did.

39:43
I did a podcast interview and then I had a client, for I do I teach meditation and mindfulness um to some clients online, and I was with the client and I'd had another podcast and mindfulness um to some clients online, and I was with the client and I'd had another podcast, and so for like two, three hours where I was, and so you know, the client asked me what is your son doing while you're doing this? And I could feel that initial like, oh, am I being judged? And then the release of that oh, he's just fine, he's watching Netflix. I'm just letting him chill. He's doing whatever he wants response and it was just such a relief for me to feel how much faster now I can release that that from my system and respond in a way that's okay and confident in that.

40:24
And yeah, I love the story that you've just given. I absolutely love that. I think that's such a fantastic example. I certainly didn't figure out what I wanted to do at 13. Yes, I had interest, but my evolution has definitely been a slow burn and trying many different avenues before landing into what I feel passionate about now.

40:45 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
So, yeah, I think the time aspect is so super wild the time our kids have who are homeschooled or unschooled, or the time it takes to develop. I think that if you are these eight hours in school and have extra curriculum, I was like a competition swimmer and the amount of time not used on just finding myself when I was young was incredible. And that's what I see in our young children and in the young children, young adults we meet around who are homeschooled. I'm like wow, that inner peace they have.

41:31 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
The way they can carry themselves.

41:33 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Yeah, it's crazy. I get all emotional about it.

41:36 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
I think there is actually a big difference between being homeschooled and unschooled, because some homeschoolers I'm not saying you personally, I don't know, I don't think so, but some homeschoolers they do steal a lot of their children's time and they do put a lot of demand and there's a lot of you know structure and I don't. I'm not saying you know, we're not, we're just talking about the field here. Yeah, and I think if you are unschooled and you have all your time available and you're not being judged for what you choose to do with your time, what I see is when they come out kind of the other end and they're 15, 16, seven year old, 17 year old some of them if you measure them on the academics, maybe they're not like superstars. Others are those who are not a superstars at other things. They can do amazing parkour, or they know everything about some weird random thing, or they're very good at profs, or you know they've not done nothing for years. They've done something other than studying languages and math and you know the things. That's what I see and I've met at this point quite a few of these.

42:53
You know who are at the other end and but what they consistently are is that they are so good at carrying themselves. Many have had like spikes in emotional or identity things happening, but when they land when they are at the end of their teen years, I just see people who can carry themselves. They know who they are. They've been through a lot. They know how to get to cope with things. They know how to stand up for community. They know how to stand up for themselves. They they have somewhat clear value systems. They know who their friends are. They know how to just to stand up for that, to be part of a good friend relation, and how to handle it if it's hard.

43:44
All of these things that forms a person that can enter life with all its many things. It's in place and, to be fair, when you are, let's say, 17, your capability of learning a language, picking up all of the math, doing the things is immense. It's overwhelming how fast they can pick that up. That's easy, whereas the other thing forming the person and getting all of that confidence and all of that psychology in place and getting that stability and that core identity and community thing working that actually takes 10 years. So yeah, that's why I think it's so important not to push them and to ask them when there's 13. Do you want to be a firefighter or a professor?

44:37 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
right, that's actually it's not important at all. No, absolutely. And I think, like I definitely see with my oldest son how he's landed into the, the age of 19 as a really um, whole person and like that that's my, that's why I'm so in awe of him, it's like seeing that sense of self that he's developed over the course of and I know that our homeschooling journey and his little bit of travel that he's done um with us has really shaped that it's been, and I think, again, it was like one of the main focuses for me with my kids has been I want them to develop a sense of self, I want them to learn how to be happy, how to, how to, you know, regulate those emotions when they come up, understand themselves, how to, how to just move in relationships and like everything that you just mentioned has been much more my focus than academic work and we've been pretty unstructured. We, we don't we don't really have structured, set things in place apart from the, as I said, the mentoring, the, the academic work mixed in um, and it's working for us like it's working for us in this way right now. And and it's working for us Like it's working for us in this way right now.

45:50
And do I need to pivot and adjust at times? Yeah, absolutely Like according to who he is it's not the same as his brother and according to where we are in the world and our financial needs and the needs for us to have community. And we have to do a lot of pivoting and nothing really looks the same from one minute to the next. It's always in flux, always changing, which I love, actually, the only thing you can count on is that you can't count on things.

46:20 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
Yeah, it's painful, I don't know what.

46:22 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
I'm doing next year. I've got a loose plan in place for the next couple of months and then talk to me again at Christmas and we'll see.

46:30 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
It'll be another plan. Yeah, I know couple of months and then then talk to me again at christmas and we'll see it'll be another plan yeah, I know, I know that words. Do we have kind of wrap up?

46:38 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
yes, but I think no, no, yeah, yeah, so, um, it is time for for you to let people know where they can find out more about you and your projects. So, if you can share, all the handles and instagram and facebook and homepages where they can get to know, yeah, that's lovely.

46:55 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
So, yeah. So for the the world school slash family adventures, um, in red sea and egypt, you can find us at wild uh, wildlife world school. Um, we are on facebook and we're also on instagram. We that's myself and nadia that are running that together for the retreat work that I do, which is with another lady called sophia, we actually have I don't know if we mentioned this fully, but we're running a team retreat alongside, uh, the women's retreat in at the end of november, and we have space for mother's team to join us for that one.

47:30
That's going to be looking at a lot of themes and in a really fun way, um led by the young people according to their interests as well. We have a facilitator that's fantastic and she's going to hold the space for the teenagers as they as she kind of helps guide them into an exploration of those themes around growing up, moving from childhood to adolescence and what that means and how we want to move in the world and what we think the world thinks of us at that age, and just kind of tapping in a little bit to those identity issues. Um, so for those um offerings, it's um at a mentee rebirth retreat. Again, we're on facebook and we're also on instagram for both of those, but people are welcome to just find me and my personal page, which is louisa andrea in brackets aurora, which is the other, the other name. Um, just so I'm identifiable against all of the other, louisa andreas on facebook. Um, so anyone can message me anytime perfect.

48:29 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
We will put it in the show notes All of that in the show notes.

48:32 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
And when we are hunting down yet another solar eclipse.

48:38 - Cecilie Conrad (Host)
I hope our pets will we might go to Egypt before 27, but let's see how it goes.

48:44 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Yeah, I would love to meet you there for the same event. So, fingers crossed, those paths are crossed and we will have that opportunity to experience.

48:51 - Jesper Conrad (Host)
It was a big pleasure. Thanks a lot for your time.

48:54 - Louisa Andrea (Guest)
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, really lovely, thank you. Thank you, guys.

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